Subsonic So the only club face rotation that occurs in the MDLT swing is what is minimal/necessary. Correct?

With a neutral grip you don't manipulate the face it naturally goes to the target. There also isn't a forward press or shaft lean ala modern instruction. It's more the weight moving forward to the front side. Where club goes face goes. What's good about MDLT is no thinking kinda like Venetos in a different way. Where golfers get in trouble is manipulation of body and over thinking IMO. This kinda technique....this body part needs to be there and the club needs to be here etc etc. I believe most would do better adopting a swing that has less or no thinking. Less rigidity and tension. Just think about the target and let the club go to target. It can be that simple and your swing will "feel" better and even on video look better....performance will gain and all of a sudden I can hit a fade or a draw at will. You'll become a multi-dimensional golfer.

      Subsonic

      These videos go along with the book Understanding the Golf Swing. The book includes all the nuances and specialty shots that the videos do not go through. Once a golfer understand the concepts you are on your way.

      Vol. 1

      Vol.2

        Subsonic I think opening and closing the clubface and intentionally rolling the wrists is a recipe for inconsistency.
        I was taught to play that way, too, but I rejected it a couple of years ago and have rebuilt my swing based on the opposite approach. It took a while but it is paying dividends now.

        'Neutral grip' can be quite a bit different depending on the natural position of your hand when the arms are just hanging at your sides. What most people consider a 'neutral grip' is actually weak in comparison with the position their hands naturally want to assume. This causes the golfer to to have to intentionally roll the face through impact, which is highly timing dependent. Not recommended.

          7 days later

          Went to the range today and hit a large bucket while practicing MDLT principles. I really like it. Seems so much more consistent. Really enjoying it.

          a month later

          MDLT swing is coming along nicely. Wished I would have tried/discovered this swing years ago.

          I am using the swing for irons and wedges and really like it. I need to make more of an effort with my driver, but I am just so engrained into my current driver routine.

          Do those of you that use the MDLT swing use it for all of your clubs?

            Subsonic Do those of you that use the MDLT swing use it for all of your clubs?

            Yes. Basically, I look at getting your weight moving and don't worry about where my hands/arms/body is at this point or at that point. I focus in front of the ball and get my weight forward. Forward insures divot in front of ball belt buckle facing target. It's such a low wear and tear on the body that I have never met a MDLT swinger that has had golf swing injuries. There is no resistance in the swing. It's all target oriented.

              I think most senior golfers use a body reacts to the arms swing. Whether they know it or not. Simply because of being stiff from aging. Lol

              Another Ernest Jones guy was Henry Cotton. Who was big focusing on the hands. He liked to have his students hit a tire to get the feel of the left hand acting as a fulcrum for the right hand. An impact bag would work as well.

              Cotton believed golf was 85% hands / arms and 15% body. He believed the golf swing was more of a hitting action. I agree. The hardest part of golf is to educate your hands. It's the only thing touching the club.

              Sneakylong The idea was that the arms swing the club and the body reacts to the swinging of the club. More feel than mechanics.

              This is how all other throwing sports are played

              No, baseball is a prime example that this is not true.


                  The baseball hitting examples pictured above are exactly why golfers who are on their back foot like baseball players hit fat shots and can't swing/move their weight on to their front side. Golf IMO is a front foot oriented swing. Baseball is not.

                    pellmell

                    Couldn’t disagree more. Every throwing or hitting sport is done with the body supporting the throwing or hitting motion. That motion is done with the hands and arms.

                    Speed and leverage is done by the hands and arms. Your hands and arms can move much faster than any other part of the body.

                    I’ll leave you with this. Hank Aaron was the greatest home run hitter in baseball. It was said that getting a fastball by Hank Aaron was like trying to get a morning sunrise by a rooster. Lol

                    Hank Aaron could always look for the curve ball first, but still hit the fastball because he had such quick wrists.

                    It’s called hand eye coordination. Not body eye coordination. 😉

                        scotts33

                        Exactly. You can’t have the arc of your swing move forward if you hang back on your back foot. The golf swing is not a singular pendulum swing.

                        It’s a double pendulum swing. Too many of us swing on a singular pendulum, thus struggle with a forward swing bottom. Resulting in a random low point with fats and thins.

                        This is what makes golf so hard for most people. You’re trying to hit a ball on the ground with a crooked stick. Oh, and you’re supposed to hit the ball before the ground, but the ball is sitting on the ground. 😏

                        And unlike baseball you have to square the club face as well. 🙄

                            Sneakylong Exactly. You can’t have the arc of your swing move forward if you hang back on your back foot. The golf swing is not a singular pendulum swing.

                            It’s a double pendulum swing. Too many of us swing on a singular pendulum, thus struggle with a forward swing bottom. Resulting in a random low point with fats and thins.

                            This is what makes golf so hard for most people. You’re trying to hit a ball on the ground with a crooked stick. Oh, and you’re supposed to hit the ball before the ground, but the ball is sitting on the ground. 😏

                            And unlike baseball you have to square the club face as well. 🙄

                            Good to hear you get it SL!

                              Sneakylong Dan Martin says the exact opposite. So does the Zen golf guy.
                              Whatever thought works for you is fine. I don't think there is one idea that is universal and works for everybody.

                                  rsvman2 This thread is about MDLT swing so hence folks that disagree with Manuel's teaching are free to post but know that many of us that have posted in this thread either were taught by Manuel or believe in his teachings. So, many of us won't agree with the non-believers.

                                  rsvman2 I don't think there is one idea that is universal and works for everybody.

                                  I agree.

                                        scotts33 There's more than one way to swing a golf club, but Ben Hogan, Sam Snead, early Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods had similar swings. Swing like the best or swing like the rest.

                                            rsvman2 Dan Martin says the exact opposite. So does the Zen golf guy.
                                            Whatever thought works for you is fine. I don't think there is one idea that is universal and works for everybody.

                                            Yeah, there's many ways to swing. Different swing theories etc.. They all work. You just have to find which one is best for you.

                                            Years ago there was an epic debate at a PGA meeting between Jim Flick (hands and arms) and Jimmy Ballard (big muscles of the body).

                                            Marcus of ZEN Golf does say that the swing is a double pendulum though. It has to be to get a forward low point. He gets very good results with his exaggerated weight shifts etc.. Very knowledgeable guy.

                                            But again, all the hands and arms guys like Manuel de la Torre go back to the teachings of Ernest Jones. Ernest Jones lost a leg in WWI. He had to figure out how to play golf with one leg.

                                            His teaching philosophy was 'club focused' and not 'body focused'. You swung the club with your hands and arms and the body reacts to the swinging of the club.

                                            Manuel's father was friends with Ernest Jones and that's how Manuel was introduced to that method. I've found for me that the body reacts to the hands and arms philosophy works best for me.

                                            Opposed to Ballard's idea that the big muscles of the body i.e. legs, torso and shoulders control the swing rather than the smaller muscles of the hands and arms.

                                            For me the hands and arms swing was more relatable to all the other sports I played. Basketball was my main sport. I dribbled and shot the basketball with my hands and arms and never once thought of what my body was doing.

                                            My body just reacted to what my hands and arms were doing.

                                            I also think whether you're a hands and arms focused golfer of a body focused golfer it helps greatly if you're blessed with fast twitch muscles.

                                            Which most of us are not. This is why the average swing speed of a male golfer is in the low 90's mph.

                                            The body focused swing is the dominant method taught today. George Ganka's is a very popular body rotation swing guru right now for example. For me though focusing on the body doesn't work.

                                            The swing happens so fast that if I concentrate on what different parts of my body are doing it results in a nightmare.

                                              pellmell Yeah. Emulating one of those guys is a sure recipe for success for the average golfer.

                                              The beauty of the EJ/MDLT swing for me is that it is the simplest way I have found for the average person to play good golf. It has been by far the most intuitive method for me. I am not trying to be Tiger Hogan or Ben Nicklaus or whomever. I simply want to go out, hit the ball well and enjoy myself.

                                              Having said that, I am sure you can play "high level" golf with this method.

                                              I believe the single most important factor in playing well is confidence, so do whatever gives you that confidence.