Sneakylong I hate to say it, but they do have a point. You could compare the LIV Tour to other small field Tour events where only the top players are invited and get points. You have to "earn" your way into those events, but they block out many other players and the points help keep top players higher in the rankings for longer. Also the Tour awards full points if an event is cut from 72 to 54 holes and only reduces the points to 75% if it's 36 holes so the rules are saying 72 holes is not necessary for points.

As I have said, I am not a fan of LIV just because of the backers, but ignoring that I do feel there could be a case of anti-trust here. The Tour appears to be trying to quash the competition. There are now other events with (at least formerly ranked) players that run more than 36 holes so why can they not earn OWGR points? They appear to be meeting the criteria for those points. And honestly how many points can they earn with so few events? They can still legally be blocked out of the regular Tour events so how many can they earn?

      Sneakylong And probably should lose World Ranking Points status.

      Although players earned their way into that tournament (with OWGR lol).

      Any tournament that is not 'open to the world' should not get ranking points.

      gudgawd, THAT is how you 'earn' your way into such tournaments. If you cannot acquire the points because you cannot earn them, how is that fair/equal treatment? I have to sit home, yet you can play and move further ahead of me in ranking? Yet, I never had equal opp throughout the season to earn the points you did? BS

        KCee Also the Tour awards full points if an event is cut from 72 to 54 holes and only reduces the points to 75% if it's 36 holes so the rules are saying 72 holes is not necessary for points.

        I think you meant "by 75%"

        • KCee replied to this.

            Stu1961 I think you meant "by 75%"

            No I believe they give them 75% of the total or reduce it by 25%. I could be wrong tho

                In such times of discord, I always look to Monty Python for guidance.

                Sneakylong There’s criteria you need to get OWGR. The one most cited is the 72 holes. But also a 36 hole cut. Plus other criteria like size of field etc..

                Cited by whom?
                The Official World Golf Ranking's site does not list "72 holes" as a criteria, nor does it list a 36 hole "cut" as a criteria for awarding points ... just that, if there is a cut, those not making it- are not awarded points. Size of field criteria only applies when it's less than 30 players - and even then it can be included after review by the Technical Committee and approval for inclusion by the Governing Board. The current LIV field size wouldn't warrant exclusion, however, it would limit the number of points available (since it's easier to win a tournament with less players, so less points are awarded based on field size). The criteria which could hamper LIV members - is the minimum number of 40 events played over two seasons.

                It's a joke that a tour like The Nordic Golf League warrants points awarded ... but somehow the LIV tour events would not. It's exclusion has nothing to do with merit.

                    KCee Stu1961 I think you meant "by 75%"

                    No I believe they give them 75% of the total or reduce it by 25%. I could be wrong tho

                    Per OWGR (unless they have a typo on their own site)

                    CURTAILED TOURNAMENTS

                    For tournaments curtailed to 36 holes because of inclement weather or other reasons, the points breakdown will be reduced by 75%.

                    • KCee replied to this.

                        Stu1961 I stand corrected. They really whack 'em for only 2 rounds. I wonder why there is no penalty for only 3 rounds?

                            KCee
                            Same here, I actually went to the site to find out about 54 hole shortened events ... expecting to see something. I was really surprised that there wasn't anything.

                              Stu1961

                              The criteria was listed on the Golf Channel last night. There was a lot to unpack with the revised OWGR that took effect in August. Here's what I found. Like I said there's a lot to unpack. Here's just some of what is cited.

                              https://www.globalgolfpost.com/featured/revamped-owgr-a-mess-for-liv-to-untangle/

                              "LIV does not meet several criteria that the OWGR lists as mandatory to be considered, and all of those criteria would have to be in place for at least one year prior to the application being accepted.

                              The OWGR has long asked that tours have a 36-hole cut, play 72 holes (developmental tours are exempt from this rule), carry an average field size north of 75, and stage qualifying to gain entry into both the tour and each individual tournament.

                              It’s expected that LIV will try to leverage the Asian Tour, the already OWGR-sanctioned tour which they own, to meet some of the criteria. They could also try to use relegation as proof of a qualifying system. However, these could both pose a problem because the Asian Tour is sponsoring LIV in their OWGR application, which is the opposite of how normal professional golf feeder systems work.

                              The OWGR has long been based on two-year windows with significant weight being added to recent results. Without accruing points, LIV players are set to drop in the rankings. And it won’t take much time at all. Projections show that it’s possible no LIV players could be in the top 50 by the end of this year. There could easily be none in the top 100 by the end of 2023. The majors could take no course of action and watch the majority of LIV golfers fall by the wayside. At the same time, some majors like the Masters could tweak their qualification system to add more non-LIV players to the field while trying to stop LIV defectors.

                              And then there is the revamped system itself. The new format will gradually show its effects each week as the old system slowly filters out, a process that will take two years. It’s impossible to know exactly what will happen moving forward, but it seems heavily in favor of the PGA Tour and heavily against LIV.

                              The OWGR is now the end result of a metric called the Strokes Gained World Ranking. The SGWR is a measure of a player’s score against the relative difficulty of how everyone else in the event fared each day. The concept is similar to strokes gained statistics used by the PGA Tour, and strokes gained inventor Mark Broadie is a part of creating this new metric. The key difference is that the SGWR is adjusted for strength of field across all tours, so players get more points for playing against other top players. These SGWR’s are combined at each tournament and that becomes the strength of field points being divided that week. There are some early issues with the SGWR system that will likely be sorted through naturally over time."

                                  Sneakylong The OWGR has long asked that tours have a 36-hole cut, play 72 holes (developmental tours are exempt from this rule)

                                  I'm confused a bit, about these 2 excerpts in bold.
                                  If 'asking', it is not a rule. If it's a rule, they are telling, not asking.
                                  Which is it?

                                      Par4QC I'm confused a bit, about these 2 excerpts in bold.
                                      If 'asking', it is not a rule. If it's a rule, they are telling, not asking.
                                      Which is it?

                                      The way I read it (it) sounds like a rule because they include the 72 hole criteria. Then they mention the exemption for developmental tours.

                                        Sneakylong
                                        I read a similar article… but those changes are about HOW points will be awarded not IF they will - which is all LIV is after. I really wish the article would have cited a source for the “mandatory (with approved exceptions)” criteria rather than the author just stating it.
                                        Frankly, given who runs OWGR, I would think it easier for LIV to create their own ranking system (based off the established rankings of players when they left the PGA) and petition the majors directly based off those. The majors already accept entry from the senior tour and amateurs … both of which have their own ranking systems.
                                        I would love to see the Masters (if their mission truly is to have the best field represented) offer invitations to LIV’s top performers - and even more importantly, openly defend their position of wanting the best-of-the-best as their reason for doing so. Just because players chose to leave the PGA tour does not mean their skills have vanished. If OWGR is flawed in its ability to still recognize and rank these golfer’s there’s no reason a major couldn’t establish new criteria to include them.

                                            Stu1961

                                            That’s the whole issue. Whether LIV ever meets the criteria to get OWGR. As for the Majors. If I had to bet I’d bet that LIV players will be excluded from the Majors.

                                            Just reading the tea leaves from what has been said by the governing bodies of the 4 Majors. And the fact that they’ll continue to fall down the world ranking points list.

                                            The only ones that could get to play are past Champions. Unless they can come up with a way to exclude them as well.

                                              The whole purpose behind OWGR was to produce a fair equitable system to rank the World’s best golfers. LIV has 13 who were ranked inside the top 50 (a typical number for inclusion in majors). The fact that these players rankings are dropping has nothing to do with diminished skills. The OWGR is failing golf - intentionally - because it is controlled by those who wish to maintain leverage over their work force (source of their billion dollar per year industry and their exorbitant salaries) … to keep them under their thumb. The LIV players are being used like heads on pikes. “54 holes”, “no cuts”, “less than 75 man fields” is all just distraction.
                                              If the majors were to exclude proven qualified players - they would be cheating golf history. But I’m sure if enough pressure and/or money is applied “fairness” can be overlooked.

                                                Stu1961 I'm curious to see what, if anything, The Masters does. They control everything associated with their tournament right down to the TV & commercials. They merely play by the rules of golf, not rules of the PGA. And it is by invite only; and I believe that to mean even past winners. It is a ton different than the other 3 majors. What they do, or don't do, may well set the trend.

                                                "Phil is a three-time Masters champion and is invited in that category and many other categories......."

                                                  If they decide to exclude 13 of the world's top 50 players, will the majors really still be majors?