Super League Predictions

toraider · 2022-02-16T17:35:31+00:00

So, aside from BDC, who's going to the Saudi League? A lot of chatter on this subject recently...

Sneakylong

I think if Ann Landers we’re around today she’d agree that the resentment caused by the trauma is justified.😉

toraider

I agree that Trump is self interested but what about LIV and the PGA Tour merging at some point in the future?

Will it happen in the next 5-10 years? Who thinks it’s a possibility and if a merger does occur only the LIV players likely would have benefited from the signing bonus.

Par4QC

toraider what about LIV and the PGA Tour merging at some point in the future?

Ernie Els said it best. Why not have the LIV and PGA sit down and talk. The PGA does not play for 3 months at the end of the year, and LIV plays very few tourneys. Let them have the 'silly season' time. Then, everyone can be members of all tours.

But....as we all can see, it is a Norman vs. Monahan thing. And both are hurting players from all tours.

johnnydoom

toraider I think it is a possibility - if LIV starts signing some of the up and coming players out of college and the feeder tours. Otherwise, those players will continue to feed the current system while the LIV tour ages out of relevancy. If the players that have moved over already have a significantly negative impact on TV ratings next year then sponsors for the PGA Tour will want to start reducing their contracts while the Saudis have the ability to wait things out if they really want to.

I'm inclined to think they won't ever merge right now, but it all depends on how much money LIV is willing to sink in order to win.

Eguller

Par4QC But....as we all can see, it is a Norman vs. Monahan thing. And both are hurting players from all tours.

Hmmmm. Norman’s long-hurting, bruised ego versus the golf world thing IMO. No small ego. 🙄

Par4QC

Eguller Neither has taken any vote among the people they represent though. It is simple, Norman vs. Monahan at the present time, 2 egos apparently.
Can we say Dictators, and their 'peoples' are OK with it all?

Like Ernie also related...with the 54 holes/no ranking points, plus the banning of players, how can ANY future tournament say they have the best players in the world in the field? They cannot.

Sneakylong

I don’t foresee a merger. Greg Norman would have to go, which the Saudis could do in a New York minute. But the two models are so different that I can’t see any sort of agreement.

The PGA has the upper hand as of now, but that could change if the Saudi’s get a TV deal. The Saudi’s can outspend the PGA, but without exposure it’s doomed to fail by normal means.

But again, if the Saudi’s just want to throw away money then they can hang around for as long as they want.

Martee

My guess is that if the PGA doesn't sit down and workout how tours can co- exist with players able to play in each, the Anti-Trust is going to do tonthe PGA what it did to Ma Bell.
(Look at the number of entities the PGA claims/controls).

The WGC's were/are no cuts, Tiger tournament is no cut, yes all are 72 holes, but they all get ranking points, they all have guaranteed payout to those who tee it up on the first day , the primary difference is 72 holes vs 54 holes.

LIV paying appearance fees are not unlike what happens in other tournaments, not just the PGA

The fact that the PGA has increased the purses, reducing the schedule, and made it more difficult for some to hang on to their tour card.

The PGA could use the LIV tour as a stepping stone between the PGA and champions while allowing aging players to be part time and if they qualify show up at majors. There still should be value with these players that is good for the game, etc. Not sure how to get there from here but heck there are alot more smart people than me that probably bring home.

Sneakylong

Martee

Apples and oranges. MCI sued AT&T in 1974 for not allowing to interconnect with their existing lines. AT&T lost the lawsuit in 1980 and then agreed to breakup which took place in 1982. I was there from 1979.

CEO Charlie Brown agreed to the breakup and forming the RBOC’s (baby bells) on a golf course. Lol. Years later he regretted doing it.

In this case here. The Saudi’s have plenty of money to compete with the PGA Tour. No one is stopping them. The Saudi’s have no basis for a lawsuit. It would be the players who sue. Because they want their cake and eat it too.

IMO it’ll all come down to whether the PGA can set rules for their members playing in competing events. That’s the central issue I believe if it even goes to court.

sdandrea1

Mattyv Maybe he can actually get a win on that tour.

Not sure any of those guys care if they win.

Par4QC

Sneakylong set rules for their members playing in competing events

I want to see it explained as to how I must be a member of an organization, yet am not an employee until I enter a tournament....but....I have to abide by the rules of membership and cannot 'work' elsewhere without consequences, or 'permission'.

I think this is what the court is also going to want to know.

It reeks of a monopoly, by definition......
A monopoly is a market with the "absence of competition", creating a situation where a specific person or enterprise is the only supplier of a particular thing.

Sneakylong

Par4QC

Here’s a good read. They cite 3 legal issues. 1. The PGA Tour’s suspension of players. 2. Reactions of other golf leagues and the majors to the PGA Tour suspensions. 3. Who could sue? I picked out a paragraph that I agree with. lol

Antitrust cases can last for as long as 5 or 10 years so even if some person or entity sues, it may take a long time for the case to be resolved.

Legal issues to observe in the PGA Tour-LIV Golf rivalry
BY CRAIG SEEBALD AND ANNABELLE CASTLEMAN
Monday, July 11, 2022

"But the PGA Tour has some good arguments that it is not a monopolist and that it is well within its rights to enforce its association rules to maintain the loyalty of its players. In particular, the tour can argue that there are many other professional golf tours throughout the world, that the PGA Tour does not even control the major tournaments in golf (such as the Masters) and that the initial success of the LIV tour undercuts any notion of monopoly power."

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/SB-Blogs/COVID19-OpEds/2022/07/11-Seebald.aspx#:~:text=But%20the%20PGA%20Tour%20has,the%20loyalty%20of%20its%20players..

garyt1957

johnnydoom. He made a boatload of money through the years though

johnnydoom

garyt1957 He has. I have nothing against him and wish him all the best. I doubt he's going to help draw many people in since he's mostly been under the radar. Who knows? Maybe he'll catch fire and go on a winning streak and generate all kinds of buzz. Sometimes a small change can do wonders.

garyt1957

Interestingly, the Rocket Mortgage Classic is coming here soon and the TV advertising is showing Bryson and Rickie? A Little false advertising there

garyt1957

johnnydoom I didn't know he was still playing

Par4QC

Sneakylong that the PGA Tour does not even control the major tournaments in golf (such as the Masters)

I suppose I'd need to check the qualifications for entering each of those Majors, but I believe all would hinge on a 'membership', as the base. For next year's events( Majors), it looks like the entry requirements might be set, due to 'finishing placements' from this year's events, except PGA Championship. But after that, no, the LIV players will essentially be barred from entry, unless they do get an invitation(Masters). I'm doubting those folks will invite from LIV Tour, in 2024. They would have to 'recognize' that tour's backers in the process.

The whole shitball about LIV....is political. Like we didn't know that already.

PA-PLAYA

One thing is clear in all this. It is very very unlikely that Monahan survives this.

That said, I'm not sure any commissioner or ceo would survive something like this. This is essentially a hostile takeover.

I certainly didn't see it leading to the point it is now. I knew there would be some guys who'd go with this because all they care about is money. But I certainly overestimated the decent loyalty of quite a few.

Every port of call has nests of whores on the nearby street corners.

Par4QC

PA-PLAYA overestimated the decent loyalty of quite a few.

Loyalty to family always comes 1st, not to any organization, 'job', etc..
I've always respected your thoughts in your posts pertaining to such.

Stu1961

@"PA-PLAYA"#p263440But I certainly overestimated the decent loyalty of quite a few.

Why do you think they should feel any sense of loyalty? The PGA is practically a monopoly. If a player is good enough to play on the world stage, and wants to earn big bucks doing so (prior to LIV) they had to sign whatever agreement the PGA put before them. More than a few who have jumped ship have expressed their belief that their deal with the PGA was less than "fair". Would you feel indebted, or loyalty, to an organization which you believe treated you unfairly?

sdandrea1

I don't understand the loyalty expectations completely. These players earned their way thru the amateur events, mini-tours and eventually the big show by individual performance. It's not like the PGA Tour hired them based on a resume, trained and developed them, promoted them, etc. The player's earnings came from sponsors and TV $. What has the PGA invested in them that creates an expectation of loyalty?

Eguller

sdandrea1 What has the PGA invested in them that creates an expectation of loyalty?

The PGA provides the venue, stage, $$$ and the opportunity to play for those $$$ if you qualify.

KCee

sdandrea1 I agree. The players have to achieve a certain amount to even be able to essentially sign a non-compete agreement.

Not quite apples to apples, but the PGA Tour lured away many of the rest of the world's greatest players by paying more money for tournament wins and now LIV is luring players away by.......paying more money period. IMO the Tour should do nothing, but make sure that they offer the best place to work so that they get the best talent.....like actual companies have to do.

sdandrea1

Eguller The PGA provides the venue, stage, $$$ and the opportunity to play for those $$$ if you qualify.

That's not an investment in the players. It's the method they use to support their charities and their extravagant salaries/benefits.

garyt1957

Eguller The PGA provides the venue, stage, $$$ and the opportunity to play for those $$$ if you qualify.

And now someone else is providing another avenue to all that. The PGA was the only place to go for those players for a long time. Much like the NBA and then along came the ABA which gave players another avenue to showcase their skills. Or the NFL and the AFL. Competition is a good thing for the worker.

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