USGA rules response SHOCKER!

darpar

So I've written/called the USGA regarding rules etc. on many occasions in the past.
It usually takes anywhere from 1-2 weeks to get a response.
I couldn't believe I got an answer back within an hour of sending the email, and on a
Sunday no less!😮👍👍

The question was: do you get free relief from a cart path if your ball comes to rest in the
bottom of a bush (and deemed unplayable) and the bush is next to the cart path?

Mattyv

darpar

What did they say?

Par4QC

darpar if your ball comes to rest in the
bottom of a bush (and deemed unplayable) and the bush is next to the cart path?

1st....you are not taking relief from the cart path, you are taking an unplayable. That will cost you. If the drop would cause your stance to be on the cart path, you should get relief.

But, when you are getting a 2 driver's length drop, for the unplayable, how the hell is that going to be close to a cart path?

golf_bhoy

If you need relief because you're standing on the cart path, I say yes if that's the local rule for the course you're playing). Only you can deem the ball unplayable, you could have a slash at the ball in the bush if you wanted to.

Sparky

I would not call it unplayable, that would override the cart path relief. If you can get a club to it, call it in play, and take the cart path relief.

golf_bhoy

I think we'll have to wait for darpar to get over the shock of a prompt - Sunday - reply before getting the answer.

Eguller

Stance or swing = relief.

mikeintopeka

Par4QC But, when you are getting a 2 driver's length drop,

One club length relief from path...or 2 club lengths relief from the unplayable and 1 stroke penalty?

darpar

Like I said the ball was unplayable, it was situated in the middle/bottom of a bush similar to this one
and about 2 feet from the concrete cart path.
It was hard to reach by hand let alone being able to get a club on it.

Par4QC

mikeintopeka 2...lateral.

mikeintopeka

Similar situation: my opponent hits his tee ball and it comes to rest on the left-hand side of the cart path on the left-hand side of the hole. There is no room to take relief because of bushes that would prevent a swing or stance. He takes relief but he ends up in a bush and I told him I thought he could now declare an unplayable and take a stroke penalty to get his relief. He thinks he can go back toward the tee to find a spot to get his relief and drop. I stood firm and asked him to play the 2nd ball and put two into play with both of our scenarios.

The head pro didn't hesitate when he said my scenario that resulted in having to declare an unplayable was correct. Was the pro correct? (It didn't matter, I still had to the low ball against the 2 balls my opponent played but we were both curious as to the correct ruling)

Par4QC

mikeintopeka There is no room to take relief because of bushes that would prevent a swing or stance.

Did he take 'nearest point of relief', then 1 club length from that point? Must have been a lot of bushes around that he could not find a clear spot.

Sounds to me like he could have dropped on the other side of the path. Relief, by definition, is not dropping into a bush. If he dropped the other side, and it was closer to hole, he still gets 1 club from that point. Meaning he could have moved the ball further away from the hole than it was originally. jmo.

I am not affiliated with the USGA nor have I ever been employed as an official. 😄

darpar

Here's what I sent to the USGA:

Hi,
I have a rules question that isn't totally clear (to me/us) under Rule 16.1.

If you have a bush that is next to a cart path and your ball lands in the bottom of the bush and the ball is deemed unplayable....
Do you still get free relief from the cart path (immovable obstruction) because that is where you'd be standing if you could hit the ball
if it had NOT landed in the bush?

I told my playing partner he did NOT get FREE relief because where his ball landed, the ball was deemed unplayable and that he'd have to take a penalty stroke..
regardless of the fact that the cart path came into play.
What's the correct ruling on a situation like this?

Sparky

darpar
Who deemed it unplayable? You can't declare someone else's ball unplayable.

darpar

Sparky Who deemed it unplayable?

The other guy said he found his ball, "but I can't play it from there!"
He said he was going to take free relief from the cart path.
I said "you can't do that without taking a penalty stroke for the ball being unplayable where it lies."
My suggestions was to play two balls and ask the pro shop for a ruling later.
That didn't happen.

jrock

Is @darpar trying to build up the suspense on the official answer?

My ruling on that... Yes he is!

darpar

jrock
Hey gotta have a little suspense around here on occasion!😁

Par4QC

darpar "you can't do that without taking a penalty stroke for the ball being unplayable where it lies."

But, if he was going to make his stroke while standing on the path, he did not have to declare an unplayable; his decision. Long reach, I'm sure, but still.

rsvman2

I'm with you on this one. Hi the ball into an unplayable lie in a bush, gotta take the unplayable penalty. The cart path doesn't enter into it, imo.

darpar

Ok it's getting late and this is what I got back from the USGA....
IN A SUPER TIMELY MANNER, I might add!

I can't post the entire reply I received according to this last statement.
This response is for your personal information and may not be posted or disclosed by email or internet posting.

But you do NOT get free relief from an immovable obstruction (cart path in this case) when your
ball is clearly in an unplayable condition like the middle of a bush.

Par4QC

darpar But you do NOT get free relief from an immovable obstruction (cart path in this case) when your
ball is clearly in an unplayable condition like the middle of a bush.

I'll have to disagree with that statement, and say the person making it is wrong. Only the player may deem a ball as unplayable. I've seen Pro golfers climb trees to hit balls, and just like this instance, they have hit balls from bushes, ponds, etc..

pellmell

darpar This response is for your personal information and may not be posted or disclosed by email or internet posting.

Why, is it because the rules of golf are ambiguous?