IMO....

Par4QC · 2021-04-19T15:44:09+00:00

The biggest problem in the U.S. today is..... $1,400 stimulus checks, $3,600 child tax credit and $300 unemployment check bonuses til Sep.. Prove me wrong...

Toulon

Sarnella

My wife wanted to move there. She's Norwegian. We've been doing a lot of virtual traveling during the pandemic looking at different states and countries. That was one of her favorite places.

Told her to forget it because we'll never be jabbed and will be unable to fly there. She said we could take a boat. I bought her a kayak the next day. 😂

rsvman2

Toulon Interesting that you call for open-mindedness earlier in this thread, and decry 'indoctrination.' You say that people should listen to multiple sides of a story rather than reaching snap judgments. I totally agree with you.
It just seems to me that you feel that liberals should do that, but maybe conservatives don't need to bother? You express dogmatic opinions almost constantly, and vehemently rebut anybody who disagrees with your point of view, but encourage open-mindedness and balance in others.
Your hard-line stance against what you call the 'jab' is just the latest in a long line of dogmatic opinions you have expressed on this forum. I don't have a problem with your being dogmatic, mind you, but I think it is disingenuous to be dogmatic and then to pontificate about how people shouldn't be dogmatic.
Nobody is forcing you to get vaccinated. Nobody is currently requiring you to be vaccinated in order to fly commercially, either. I don't have a crystal ball, but if forced to bet, I would bet right now that there will NOT come a day when you are forbidden to fly because you did not get vaccinated.
So, in reality, there is nothing stopping you from moving to Norway, or anywhere else, for that matter. If you really wanted to do it, you could do it. Don't post that you can't do it because you haven't been vaccinated and don't want to be vaccinated. Speak the truth to us, brother! You don't want to move to Norway, and that's ok.

candukid

Toulon
so told told her that she will never be jabbed. Is that her choice or do you make the decisions for her?

azgreg

DC300

Studies have shown that a large majority of gun crimes committed in those "strict" cities use guns that are obtained from neighboring cities and states that have laxer gun laws.

Walterjn

azgreg how many are stolen from rightful owners, then sold on the black market?

colej

DC300

well said

azgreg

Walterjn
I don't know, how many?

Toulon

rsvman2 you feel that liberals should do that, but maybe conservatives don't need to bother?

I appreciate your post but this part of it was totally, and no pun intended, out of left field. ^^^^^^

You're missing a CRUCIAL step here and slamming me without its consideration. "InDOCtrination", not a pun, either, is when you DO NOT listen to all sides, and run with your hair on fire that the ONE thing you were told is absolute truth. You think I formed my opinion by not listening to all sides? Listening to all sides, and considering them, has created my opinion.

May I offer what I consider an indoctrination piece of media? You tell me what the headline has to do with the story? It is not NEWS it is a heavily slanted tribalistic piece of garbage. I only used it because it came to mind immediately. Tell me...Is that news? OR...indoctrination or pushing tribalism and polarization? I can see what it is. Can you?

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/20/politics/maxine-waters-kevin-mccarthy-minnesota-police/index.html

There is no indoctrination going on with me. Every single dogmatic thing I've ever expressed on this forum has been carefully and thoughtfully considered. I consider all sides before deciding to be dogmatic. Can't be it without it.

The charge that I'm on the right is dubious.

If you spent time in the Water Hazard you would see that I have positions that conflict with Sneak and meagain. I have NEVER voted Republican in my life. FACT. NEVER. Yet, here you are with that kind of an allegation and have spun a diatribe against me based on a couple of fallacious understandings.

EDIT: I think very strongly that ANYONE who falls into either camp or side or whatever you want to call it is on dangerous ground. Each issue is unique and the OSFA approach simply doesn't work. Taking a label is bad enough but running around with pride that you've taken it is insulting to objectivity and intelligence. Yet, our world is becoming more and more polarized with literal IDIOTS on both sides toeing the company line so to speak. Simply horrifying and the masses are unaware of how they're pushed, intentionally, further and further toward total inability to have any independent thought.

Oh, and Norway. My WIFE is the one hot for Norway. I was simply getting her mind off that idea by reminding her we couldn't fly there. Yes. I don't want to live there...as of today... but certainly would consider it.

rsvman2

Toulon Out of curiosity, have you ever voted for a Democratic candidate?

For the record, I am unaffiliated with either political party and have voted for Republicans, Democrats, and Libertarians in various elections.

DC300

wishbone I see my sarcasm missed the mark. The gun violence is only cared about when they need to distract from the other corruption. Take a look at the highest death rates, it almost without exception is based where the birth rate to unmarried mother and teen moms is high. Broken family life, lends to drugs, gangs, and poverty, which is then subsidized and encouraged by handout policies which incentivizes to keep on having more children for more income and don’t get married or you stand to lose your benefits. See the point now?

wishbone

DC300 Got it

Par4QC

DC300 😲omg.....someone understands why I stated what I did in the OP!! Holy crapola.

And that area is no longer/should no longer be considered in the poverty zone. Look at all the cash being thrown their way, with which to make matters even worse than they are, instead of much better, in their areas. Yet, because the money is not considered income, they still are getting all the help, and sympathy, while damn good paying jobs go unfilled.
We need another go'round of stimmy $$$. 😆

Toulon

rsvman2 Out of curiosity, have you ever voted for a Democratic candidate?

Yes.

I've shared this before, but I consider each issue unique and requires a "referendum" approach. The referendum is weighing all sides and then choosing which is the most correct, or not choosing at all because none of them are.

One of my pet peeves in life is ANYONE who is a dyed in the wool... "fill in the blank". Honestly, those people scare me as much as they annoy me. Tribalism is poison. Worse than any currently circulating virus, including ebola...because of the concentration in society. It's rampant and KILLING our society on so many different levels. I have no interest in any of it, but that doesn't mean that I don't dogmatically support issues falling under either/any umbrella.

BTW, you mentioned the jabs. Bad idea. 😂 I wish science, doctors, politicians and media reported BOTH sides with the fervor they do for one. It is as imbalanced as the CNN piece I linked, and why would I be reading CNN to begin with but that's off-topic.

Let's be honest. Let's be fair. We're NONE of those things right now. Not even close.

Bill Maher had a GREAT rant on this the other night. "Give it to me straight, Doc"..."But...when all of our sources for medical information have an agenda to spin us, yeah, you wind up with a badly minsinformed population... "

Giphy - Clapping Reaction GIF by MOODMAN

EDIT: I hate having to be mindful of that I can't speak to people like people anymore. I have to be careful about what politics a particular statement is going to be perceived as coming from. I posted a link to a 20 minute YT clip the other night. Guy was a flaming Libertarian. I'm not...but I couldn't agree more with his views on that particular issue. Now, I have to worry I'll be pegged as a libertarian. professor once lamented that I wasn't what he thought I was politically because I expressed something not consistent with some of the things he'd seen previously. I am NO PARTY. Just Toluon Ridge, baby! 😂

Par4QC

Toulon I wish science, doctors, politicians and media reported BOTH sides with the fervor they do for one.

Just the facts, ma'am. Don't make anything up that is not backed by such, either!!

rsvman2

Toulon My mentioning the jabs was a bad idea, or the jab itself is a bad idea? Can't tell from your post.
Pretty sure from my point of view my mention of the jabs was a bad idea, but I don't personally think the jab itself is a bad idea. Given that the only medical intervention in history that has saved more lives than vaccines is food and water safety, it boggles the mind that anybody could still think vaccines are a bad idea. To each his own, I suppose. All vaccines have the potential to cause adverse reactions, just as do all medicines. Any and all medical interventions are undertaken after assessing the risk:benefit ratio. If you decide to not get vaccinated, it's no skin off my nose, provided you don't spread the disease to others if and when you contract it. But if a whole bunch of toulons decide the vaccine is a bad idea and elect to not get vaccinated, it actually might affect not just me, but everybody. I realize that public health is of no interest to the narcissist, who, after all, only cares about himself.
I suspect that here in America there are just enough toulons that we might be screwed. Time will tell.

KCee

Toulon One of my pet peeves in life is ANYONE who is a dyed in the wool... "fill in the blank". Honestly, those people scare me as much as they annoy me.

Me too. I've voted for Democrats and Republicans and try to look at the candidates, but many will say "vote the party, not the candidate". I suppose that is much simpler, but I can't bring myself to move that far Left or Right.

Eguller

Par4QC Just the facts, ma'am. Don't make anything up that is not backed by such, either!!

The chances of that are ------------------- ?

Par4QC

rsvman2 I suspect that here in America there are just enough toulons that we might be screwed. Time will tell.

And those Toulons will keep the need for boosters coming also, which will give them more fodder for their barnburnings/stumpthumpings. 1 day, those will catch fire, and there will be less standing on them. 😉

johnnydoom

rsvman2 I need a logic lesson. How is the vaccine effective communally if it is not effective individually. That is what I don't understand and perhaps you can help me. If you take the vaccine and it works then it seems as though it wouldn't matter if someone else doesn't take it and gets sick. If the vaccine protects it seems as though the only people the sick person would affect are other unvaccinated people. If the vaccine doesn't protect individually how does having everyone vaccinated protect everyone if they are still individually susceptible to being infected? Not saying it can't be true, but it certainly seems about as counterintuitive as anything I've ever heard.

Toulon

rsvman2 My mentioning the jabs was a bad idea

This. ^^^^^^^^^ Just bringing it up sends endorphins rushing...

Virology. This isn't typical virology. Is it typical to spend 88 days trialling a jab? The very things that we're seeing now with JnJ, AZ and quite frankly Pfizer and Moderna are the very things past trials have shown...and the past trials failed miserably.

We both know what we think on the "leaky vaccine" issue, but this one's got some boat-sinking sized holes going on.

I actually thought of you last night as I was reading. Was curious to know what you honestly thought about the idea/possibility of "recombination" with this virus. It's already happened, and I believe we're going to start hearing that word, IF we're not being spun as Bill Maher would say. Very curious what you think of the recombinant threat?

rsvman2

johnnydoom Not logic, but virology. The longer we allow the virus to continue to circulate, the more variants will arise, whuch will eventually make it so that the virus will learn to escape vaccine immunity. If we reach herd immunity it essentially shuts down spread so much that the virus can't mutate away from the immunity.

shokosugi

rsvman2 The longer we allow the virus to continue to circulate, the more variants will arise, whuch will eventually make it so that the virus will lear

A few questions...

How do the covid vaccines differ from ones that have been proven to stop transmissions like polio or smallpox?
How do the covid vaccines differ from the flu vaccine with respect to stopping infection and transmission?
Do you believe that flu vaccines are in the range of 30-60% effective and/or do you believe the covid vaccines are significantly more effective, even with the presence of variants?
Do you believe if we had enough booster flu shots, would it be theoretically enough to get herd immunity for the flu?
Is it possible that mitigation efforts can cause viral mutations either from our own immunity and antibodies, vaccine antibodies or even mitigation efforts like masks and social distancing? I'm wondering why the virus continues to mutate.
How fast does the virus mutate - faster than the time it would take to mass produce a booster?

I'm struggling with the idea too of herd immunity via covid vaccines if they can't give individual immunity. I'm also struggling with how the covid vaccines can be any more effective than the flu vaccine in terms of eradicating the covid virus. I'm also struggling with how the vaccines differ compared to medicine in its ultimate effect- reducing severe symptoms versus stopping transmissions and infection. It would seem if the vaccines were designed to stop infection then this would have been measured in the trials, but they weren't.

Sorry for all the questions, hopefully you can answer them.

johnnydoom

rsvman2 I’m still not sure how it can work with the virus circulating world wide and already so expansive. But I do appreciate your answer and will make an effort to comprehend it.

ptjn1201

There's a lot of incongruity from the politicians on this. IF the vaccines work, then vaccinated people don't need to wear masks. Virtually all of our politicians have been vaccinated, but most still go around wearing masks, even when they're not near anybody else. They're not protecting themselves, they're not protecting others. Now if the vaccines aren't really effective, then why the mobilization of the country and the billions of dollars spent to provide them for free?

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