Epi Pen

Release

I used to carry one in my car for emergency, together with the first aid pack. Not any longer after the price tag went from the initial $50 to over $100. What price does on put on a human life ?

This was in the News which bothered me quite a bit to almost angry. If one kit could be put together for less than $20 ( and all the component suppliers made profit ) why would one priced at $600 ?

Really angry !

http://komonews.com/news/local/king-county-paramedics-develop-epipen-alternative-for-a-fraction-of-the-cost

dan

Release I used to carry one in my car for emergency, together with the first aid pack. Not any longer after the price tag went from the initial $50 to over $100. What price does on put on a human life ?

It sounds like you put a value of the incremental $50 on human life.

ronsc1985

You suffer from the illusion that the sale price of products has anything to do with the cost of manufacture. This is only true if there is a competitive market. If not, as in this case, then it's whatever price point you can set to maximize your profit without inducing a competitor to enter the market

Release

ronsc1985

Yes, you were correct in regards to monopolizing the market when there is no real competitors for the product or service..

However, there is also moral and conscience to be considered along with profit making. Or is there none these days ?

I work in the business industry and my wife work in the medical field. Both of us firmly believe that, what we do today will come back to us eventually with vengeance. It is prevalent these days more and more "people" care less about the ripples they leave behind when they cast a stone into the pool.

It's not an illusion for the businesses to hold reasonable profit margin with life saving products. Do we want to be like some country where "pay first" for services even at the hospital outside the door to ER ?

I truly hope this price hike is a last ditch attempt to scoop up profit before others start to market a new competitive product. Unfortunately, I believe the company took direction from the bad decision of their management.

Ack8236

We are required to carry these for allergic reaction emergencies. They expire every year or year and a half, meaning we have to buy them on a regular basis. Yes, we had to pay $600 just like everyone else. We have to carry them on each rig that is licensed for BLS. We also now carry Narcan, which is used in an opiod (heroin) overdose. While a drug that helps people with an allergy is skyrocketing in price, one which helps people who willingly and knowingly put heroin into their system is being pushed to be very inexpensive or free. It is also being pushed to be available OTC.
Moral and conscience? None.

Dufferman

Check out the alternatives like Adrenaclick and the generics to Adrenaclick. They are much much more affordable and are just slightly different to use.

johnnydoom

Release, I'm pretty sure drug manufacturers work for many years to bring a drug to market. They need to pay employees to formulate the drugs, pay doctors and all other associated personnel for animal studies, clinical trials, etc. Drugs aren't like other products where you draw up a plan, tweak it, produce it and put it on the market. It is highly regulated and the regulations change from country to country and from year to year - never making things easier, but always more complex. You not only need your development crew, but a healthy team of lawyers and doctors on the payroll for liabilities. I don't know the number of lawsuits that have probably been filed against the manufacturer for the pen, most of them certainly gratuitous and bogus, but I'm sure it's an amount that would boggle your mind if it were made public, as would the cost to the company for defending against them. You aren't paying for the manufacturing cost, you are paying for the 10 year development cycle and the hundreds of peoples salaries and partial salaries that accrued over that 10 year period, the huge liabilities always present when dealing with medical products and services, the cost of complying to a rats nest of regulation, and yes - a profit for the manufacturer. As for the reason why the price was raised dramatically over a short period of time - I don't know. But I suspect it was driven more by outside forces acting upon the company (i.e. changes in government reimbursement or mandated insurance allowances) than that it was an attempt to maximize profits by bilking the heck out of folks like you that have to pay out of pocket - which is probably a very small percentage of their customer profile for this drug. The drug companies can't just come out and straight up blame the government since that same entity has the power to force them to withdraw their products from the market at any time.

All speculation on my part since I don't work for the company that produces them, but I tend to believe that this is probably more of an unintended consequence of government greed than it is a direct reflection of corporate greed.

Release

johnnydoom

I think I understand the business side of the picture.

You had brought up an interesting point of "outside" influence. Which is not being considered nor wish to be included in the logical path of trying to figure out why there was a rapid raise in price. The media had attacked the pay raise for the CEO of Mylan but here is what I found , someone else's opinion of course but makes sense.
http://nypost.com/2016/08/29/theres-more-to-the-epipen-price-hike-scandal-than-just-greed/

It is no secret of the practice of Favoritism, Cronyism, and Nepotism. Personally I had know cases connected to government officials retired into "consulting" work with large enterprises.

mainuh

So here is the deal - Johnny is correct about the cost of pharma research.
Regarding Mylen,parent company, their patent expires in 2017.
The price increase is tied to stock options and the opportunity of the company exec's to sell them because of increased earnings before the patent expires.

In my opinion the FDA protects Big Pharma not little citizen consumer.

An example - I take Lyrica.
Patent experation was @ 2015
Guess what the FDA did...gave Pfizer an extension to 2018...

'Nough said.

:-(

rob

Release

I have no idea if the alternative treatment works the same but the paramedics in our County had been using the alternative treatment at the cost of $10-$20 for years.
http://komonews.com/news/local/king-county-paramedics-develop-epipen-alternative-for-a-fraction-of-the-cost
Why ? If the pattern for Epipen expired in 2017, then someone else could be competing in this $1 Billion dollar business .

Ack8236

We looked into the MUCH cheaper alternative of carrying a vial of Epi and a syringe. If you've ever seen anaphylactic shock in action, you'd rather not wait for someone to draw and measure a dose of Epi. If you are allergic to something, dying with a vial of Epi in one hand and a syringe in the other is not something I would find particularly funny. From what I understand, the shelf life of the vial is much shorter than the pen also. In regards to the obligatory in EVERY instance cost comes up, "well we need to pay for research", Epi has been around a LONG time and is very inexpensive. The pens were developed for the military (I'm sure some of you also remember the Mark I Kit nerve agent antidote), and WE payed for that research.

Release

Yeah,

I'm not against anyone from profit taking.

Think of this as (1) Moral obligation, even it's being frowned upon these day, it's a life saving medicine for emergency treatment, not the patients could jump in a car a drive to a hospital . (2) it's starting price not too long ago was round $50, if they factor in the R & D and all other sunk cost, that could not be the initial introductory price line. Let's no forget the inflation and the legal and other costs as you mentioned. for the benefit to defend the price hike. It does not pan out to jump to $600 per kit. I ran a model calculating the cost with all the known factors figured in and it came to under $350 per kit.
There are other reasons why it moved to over $600 per kit. I'm just guessing it's the accelerated recovery for the sunk cost before a competitor market it's similar product.

Dufferman

Release

I don't think the company selling Epi Pen has any money in R&D. The injector like Ack8236 mentioned was designed for the military using tax payer dollars. Then they bought the Epi Pen patent from another company. So they are just trying to increase shareholder profits by extorting money from people who don't know any better.

Epi Pen is the Kleenex of epinephrine. There are other equally as good alternatives at much lower prices. Unfortunately, if consumers don't know this their doctors will just prescribe Epi Pen and they can't get the cheaper alternative. They must ask the doctor to prescribe and Epinephrine Auto Injector which can be a brand other then Epi Pen.

Either way, I hope this company feels the pain of this type of behavior were it hurts. But, I doubt they will....... Also, I think the US is the only country were the price was increased this much. USA! USA! USA!

Release

Dufferman

Thanks to clarify a few issue which was tangled .

I thought so but was not certain 100% this company is gouging the needy.

Unfortunately , human weakness and ignorance were among the top being explored by the profit seeking entities.

Provisional

Greed and lack of the milk of human kindness pervades our society particularly business but is everywhere.
Maybe some more oversight/ controls like those on Wall Street would be in order
Pharmaceutical lobby may be stronger than NRA, aka politicians in their pockets
Motley Fool has article suggesting more Oversight by government recommended by clinton.
Doubt if it is anything but another pre election gesture though

Release

dan

Do you carry one on you if your family does not need one for treatment ?
Kind of judgmental , aren't you ?

When my kids were young, there were other kids in the school whom were allergic to a whole bunch of stuff. I carried one in my car just because it might save someone some day. Never had to use it.

Yes, I stopped carry one in the car because the price point was high enough to take away things I could have done for my own kids. Certainly not carrying one now with price pint over $600 per kit. I'm considering the $20 kit made up by the County Paramedics.

How about you ? Did you ever even carried one when it was below $100 per kit so you could value a human life more than the rest of us ???

dan

Release Do you carry one on you if your family does not need one for treatment ?
Kind of judgmental , aren't you ?

No, I don't carry one.

You asked a question that you had seemed to answer in the exact same paragraph is all I was pointing out. I wasn't judging your answer.

Release

So you were not judging ? Didn't come across that way.

dan

I was answering what appeared to be a math question, although as I look back perhaps it was rhetorical.

Release

dan

You know, I don't sit on my ARZ doing nothing but scrutinizing and poking fun of the others. Before you even try to understand the whole picture. I guess some are born blind and no one could help them.

I can't save the world by myself. But at least I tried to take care of my own and those around me as much as I could.

It's not measuring a human live by the dollar amount like you trying to stick it in. I used to carry EpiPen kit because I thought I could help just in case some of the kids in school have an allergy reaction. I'd love to continue to carry a kit in my car but I need to draw a line where the cost had starting to be a concern. Out of the 3 years I had it, never once did I have to use it.
The schools all have EpiPen in the nurse's room now and also one or two of the defibrillators kit. So the urgency of playing God is not there now.

What have you done ?