Flag stick out or in

SVonhof

I have already said I will leave it in.

But, if everyone wants it out, I would never tell them to put the flag back in for my turn to putt. You have to have common sense, especially in league play.

Natpharm

SVonhof
and "common sense" is that some get to play how they want within the rules but others don't?

MidwayJ

Natpharm and "common sense" is that some get to play how they want within the rules but others don't?

If the alternative is the flagstick going in and out multiple times per hole, so be it.

sdandrea1

limpalong Over this past week, it's been slowing us down... not speeding up play as the USGA intended. We have one in the group who wants it in until he has holed out. Another wants it left in for longer putts and out for shorter. Another wants it out from just off the green until he holes out.

Absolutely. If everyone in the group is differing, you get Keystone Cops running around the green.

Typhoon

It's funny the more in think about it, our greens are small so we automatically pull it out when we're on the green.

Natpharm

MidwayJ We'll have to agree to disagree here. I'm all for speeding up play (especially in my league where it's not unusual for 9 holes to take 3 hours), but also feel that the choice to putt either way should be available. If I find I'm more comfortable/confident putting with the flag in why should this option be taken away from me? If someone else is more comfortable/confident with the flag being out of the hole, should I (or the group) be able to tell them that they're going to have to putt with the the flag in?

sdandrea1

I was in a 4some today who all liked the stick in the cup. We were very fast on and off the greens. Yesterday the other 3 guys were traditional, so I went along with them and we pulled it. No biggie.

MidwayJ

Natpharm MidwayJ We'll have to agree to disagree here. I'm all for speeding up play (especially in my league where it's not unusual for 9 holes to take 3 hours), but also feel that the choice to putt either way should be available. If I find I'm more comfortable/confident putting with the flag in why should this option be taken away from me? If someone else is more comfortable/confident with the flag being out of the hole, should I (or the group) be able to tell them that they're going to have to putt with the the flag in?

In principle I agree and I suppose there wouldn't be much choice in league play. However, in practice it could just get ridiculous. I am going to suggest that the regular group I play in establish some ground rules. For example, we leave it in until someone wants it out, but once it's out it stays out. Reasonable exceptions would be permitted, such as the guy with the steep downhill putt who wants it back in.

Natpharm

MidwayJ
Sounds very reasonable. I think I'll probably lean towards just leaving the flag in on longer putts (if nothing else than to help me see the hole better) and taking it out on shorter ones (unless others want or have opted to leave it). Our league (and I would wager most) just have a few guys that do and will continue to do anything to try to get under the skin of others and this is a perfect vehicle for them to continue on this journey.

mikeintopeka

Another study is out that leans heavily on pulling the pin. This was conducted by a professor at Cal Poly and he makes a compelling argument in his research.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/putting-with-the-flagstick-in-could-be-a-mistake-new-golf-digest-study-from-cal-poly-professor-shows?utm_social-type=owned&utm_source=facebook&utm_brand=gd&utm_medium=social&mbid=social_facebook&fbclid=IwAR1QstOH4OSeNnIvt6dYpASsStH3Sni25qosD0sSGpWG181u9LGjzF7phCk

sdandrea1

In works for me, and is working well. YMMV.

KCee

On the golf trip we just took pretty much all 8 of us were leaving it in for long putts, but many times pulling it on shorter ones. It just seemed/felt odd having it there when you're relatively close. Sort of like someone standing too close to you. None of us New Englanders could make a putt on Florida greens any way so whatever.

PA-PLAYA

I think it can be a time saver on the longer lag putts for me. But the putts from about 15-20 feet and in (unless it's a mere tap-in) I'll probably opt to have the pin out. No worrying about if the pin is leaning, wind blowing the flag, etc.

LogicalOne

I plan on leaving it in as often as I can, but will be flexible enough not to impact pace of play.

Sparky

I've played four rounds now. I'd say in general, the foursomes I have played in have left the pin in for putts over 5 feet. And in those 4 rounds, with 4 players each round, not a single putt has contacted a pin. I take that back, one guy charged a 4 footer, and it took a slope after the hole and hit the pin laying on the ground.

braveheart

Going to try it in all the time this coming season.

ZWExton

It's an interesting thing to think about, but the number of putts I have per round that are inside the hole from any significant distance, whether they drop or not, is small enough that I can't justify putting much time into this. The percentage of that small number that would have its fate materially impacted by the presence of the pin is smaller still.

So, it's easier to leave it in.

Sneakylong

We've been leaving it in all the time and have not seen one putt not go in because of the flag stick being left in. It does speed up play because now the last guy putting does not have to have a guy waiting with him and picking up the flag stick and putting it back in.

This past year our course put in new and different metal cups. They're supposed to be put in an inch below the surface, but sometimes they were only 1/2 inch below the surface. It happened to me twice where a putt at normal speed hit the back of the cup and bounced back out.

My only issue with leaving it in is I have shorter fingers and a longer palm and at times squeezing my hand down and getting my ball out takes me more than one try. Other than that I have seen no issues with leaving it in.

fnufan

A very odd piece of 'research'.
He was actually setting out to test the effects of type of flagstick not holing the ball per se.
He chose putts that would travel 5' - 7' beyond the hole. Who on earth putts at that pace?
It was claimed that "The one thing missing until now has been any real science"
There are at least 3 other pieces of 'research' on the web that have been issued with different conclusions. But to be fair none come down categorically on the side of leaving the flagstick it.
But all seem to suffer from using an over enthusiastic stroke. I've only seen Mickelson putt with that much aggression.

darpar

We've been leaving it in during our league play,doesn't seem to effect the outcome
and it does seem to speed things up a bit.
But man dropping from knee high for some these older guys can get amusing!
And 3 mins is STILL well past 5 when looking for a lost ball!🤔

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