Another club-building question - grip weight's affect on swingweight

sdandrea1

Soooooo, I like to dry-fit everything before expoxying so I can use internal weights vs lead tape to achieve swingweight goals. I also like to use midsize GP Tour Wrap 2G grips that are in the 58 - 60 gram range. In order to get the SW scale to say D2 (for ex), I may need to add weight to the shaft-tip/hosel joint. (I do not want to trim shaft length to achieve target swingweights).

School of thought #1 - adding weight to the grip end may get the swingweight scale to "say" you need more head weight with a 60g grip, but you are being fooled since extra weight in the grip end has little affect on the real feel of the swingweight (dynamic). Build your clubs with a 50g split grip and then put on any grip you like. These guys contend that my wedding band weighs 15g and if I took it off to play golf, I'd never feel the diff. Same example for a watch (much heavier)

School of thought #2 - The swingweight scale cannot be fooled and doesn't lie.

I don't really want to make my irons 10g heavier at the head just to use bigger grips and satisfy my SW scale.

Your thoughts and lessons learned?

JeffTilley

Feel. Most folks who can’t tell the difference in feel between a quality forged iron and a cast iron won’t be able to “feel” a couple points difference in swingweight.

sdandrea1

JeffTilley

I agree but I am talking about a situation where I need to go from C7 to D2. That's 5 SW points - 10g of weight.

puttnfool

You may feel the difference in swingweight, but what you need to keep in mind is that when you add weight to the head to manipulate swingweight, you effectively soften the shaft's flex. If you're good with that, then go ahead.

shokosugi

I never worry about swingweight, especially in the cases where the grip weight is the difference maker. Yes the scale will reflect a lighter swingweight but since the weight is in your hands, it doesn't really matter. To me wearing a watch is no different than a heavier grip and I doubt you would alter headweight based on if you are wearing a watch like you said - stick with school of thought #1 and don't look back!

ronin74

As far as grips go on their effect on a clubs performance, I have concluded that the categories for their effects on a person's performance with the club are ranked in this order:

Traction: a 20 yr old slick, hard grip, may make it hard enough to hang on to the club let alone manipulate it
Size: A too narrow or too wide grip will make it more difficult to manipulate the club consistently
Material: Some like tacky some don't
Weight: Overall weight, it shouldn't feel like swinging a piano
Cleanliness: Affects Traction
Butt: Some like them big, some don't
Color: Whatever instills confidence is better than that which embarrasses
Resulting Swingweight: Swingweight was developed to figure out the results changes to a club has on the feel of a
shaft. Putting a different grip on the club doesn't affect how and when the shaft loads and unloads during the
swing.

Or at least hose are my priorities.
Personally, I Like the GripOne Jumbo Arthritic Grips.

puttnfool

ronin74 Butt: Some like them big, some don't

Six-mix-alot preferred them big from what I hear.

puttnfool

I'm not sure a watch is a good comparison... unless you fix the watch to the shaft of the club each time.

Rickochet

Don't worry about SW numbers. Trim the shafts based on the head weight of the club. Butt trim to your normal length. Put whatever grip on it. If it is lighter or heavier that what you have been hitting it might feel a bit diff at first but just keep playing them and after you get used to them you won't know the difference. Been there done that.

sdandrea1

Rickochet Trim the shafts based on the head weight of the club.

Thanks Rick - please expand on this comment above. I would NOT tip trim based on mfg's trimming instructions?

Rickochet

sdandrea1 Thanks Rick - please expand on this comment above. I would NOT tip trim based on mfg's trimming instructions?

Sorry if that was confusing. What I meant to say was tip trim as you would per the manufacturers chart for the club number, e.g 8 iron. Tip trim and butt trim to what you would normally do without any consideration about the grip. I have changed out 68 gram grips for 42 gram grips on a set. Takes a little adjustment but no big deal for me. Might be different for you. Going to something like a JumboMax at 110 grams might be different but don't know.

ronin74

The mfg's trimming instructions are based on an assumed standard headweight. If your head weighs more or less than that assumed standard, it can alter how the shaft performs. Same concept as hard stepping or soft stepping.

puttnfool

ronin74 I can follow that, but tell me this...

Theoretically, if you have a set of irons that you're building and the heads are spec'd at 270g and 277g and call for 3" and 3.5" of tip trimming, respectively. If the "277g" head is 4g under weight and only 273g, why would you alter tip trimming instead of simply adding 4g of head weight to bring it back up to spec?

ZWExton

Swing weight is simple, but it's a very antiquated measure. As you've noted - 10g of extra weight in the group throws swing weight off a lot but it is very negligible in the swing.

You can use it to make sure your clubs are similar in feel in relation to each other. If, for example, dry fit your 8i to D0 and your 9i to E6, there's probably something wrong.

If you build your club the way you think you should and it feels good, don't worry about what the swing weight actually is. Just make sure the other clubs are in an appropriate range for what you're trying to achieve.

Or quit messing with this shit and go single length 😃 then you can swing weight them all the same!

sdandrea1

puttnfool why would you alter tip trimming instead of simply adding 4g of head weight to bring it back up to spec?

I wouldn't alter tip trimming. I mostly use tip weights to get a standard/linear weight difference between heads (7 grams) or to try to bring them as close to mfg specs as possible.

ronin74

Adding 4g of mass is much easier than nibbling a few mm off the tip of the shaft. So I agree with your thinking.
When I was writing my response, I had in mind the idea of a hypothetical set of hybrids that were created lighter to increase swingspeed and distance as a design feature rather than tolerance variances.

puttnfool

ronin74 Makes sense. I have an old original Jackaroo 15° (1 iron hybrid) that I cut to 6i length. I could hit stingers for days and it's great for recovery shots under trees, etc., but it feels like it's shafted on a piece of rebar. Come to think of it, I'm not sure why... I know I didn't build it initially that length. I'm sure it was built/trimmed to normal 1i length to begin. Maybe I'll tinker with it one day to see what I can do with it.

ronin74

I was distracted and lost my train of thought. I wouldn't trim more for too light a head, ever. I should have commented about altering the trim a few mm

ode

the only time I've noticed a significant difference in the feel of the club based on grip weight was using the DTG super oversize grips they have that are a competitor to the jumbo max.....these weighed in over 100g and it was def noticeable.....but from 50 to 60 nope.....most grips I play range from 59 (mids pure) to 78 (OS lamkin).....don't notice it. Seems counterintuitive to me to add more headweight just to get the SW scale to read the same as with the lighter grip, as total weight will now be significantly different then with the club with the lighter grip and lighter headweight.....no way those.clubs will feel.the same.

DC300

I wouldn’t bother adjusting the SW to change the grip, but I do prefer the feel of more weight in my hands, it helps me stay on plane better, so I just use big, heavy, Tackimac Unified grips at the moment. I almost refuse to use anything under 70g because I want more of the heft at the grip end vs the head.