Single Plane

scotts33

Since, we don't have a swing or instructional area on GB.....putting this in the Clubhouse.

Who on GB is using a single plane swing technique/method and who did you learn it from? Experiences with single plane?

I am interested enough to play with it and have been practicing for 2 weeks before I took it to the course. Initial 9 score about same 44 (few great putts and a few poor ones). Driver Swing Science FC-One a set to 12.5 slight face angle closed 44" playing length with Swing Science Series 200 R flex. 3 wood Swing Science FC-One a Frwy set to 17 slight closed face angle 43" playing length with Swing Science Series 200 A flex. Hit all fairways 100% and hit some nice tight lie frwy wood shots. Irons 5i, 7i, and 9i Wishon Sterling single length 36.75" 63* lie, Wishon S2S Stepless steel R. Irons were decent hit a few loose shots. I definitely can see an improvement and possibility of why single plane can work. It also is a weird feeling from the conventional 2 plane. Not as many moving parts and shorter back swing also probably why it kinda looks and feels weird but one can not argue with results. My drivers and fairway shots as well as most iron shots are straight as an arrow with only 2 weeks practice. The learning curve seems much shorter than a traditional 2 plane swing.

There seems to be a direct correlation to single length irons or clubs and single plane ala Moe Norman more bent over 45* upper torso and Bryson DeChambeau more upright upper torso longer length clubs. Though I think you can play 1/2" or 3/8" length graduation equally as well as long as lie angle is corrected. Hands are much higher in the set up vs. traditional golf swing methods. That in and of itself is the largest difference and needs some time to work into your game. My grip is much more neutral and less handsy.

JeffTilley

I've toyed with it a few times, and you're right about the shorter backswing and weird feeling. I lose distance with my woods, but irons about the same. A friend I play with has tried to covert me to this. He has a single plane swing that's outta this world. Short backswing, neutral grip, very consistent. He hits almost every shot right down the gut. Only time he really ever gets offline is when he gets after a shot. Dude shoots low 70's every day, sometimes cracks into the 60's, amazing to watch. I'm stubborn and still looking for that long lost swing I had 30 years ago, lol. There is some merit to switching, but it's hard to do.

DC300

I can't get comfortable with it, just seems too stiff for me. I would probably be better if I could actually learn it, but it's a tough transition.

ZWExton

If you have the flexibility and athleticism to swing in more of a single-plane fashion you will likely be more consistent with it. Fewer moving parts,essentially reliance on timing.

The difficulty folks have in transitioning is that they're used to doing more than very little, and the 1PS is really a turn back, a slight raise of the arms, then a turn through.

I've been swinging this way forever. The up and down chop motion of the arms that the 2PS requires always felt goofy and inconsistent to me.

No real correlation to single length clubs, though. Shorter clubs tend to work a little better with the more bent-over 1PS, and single length clubs are much shorter in the long irons, but neither was made for the other.

If it works for you, get it! Less flexible and less strong folks will struggle to generate clubhead speed without the vertical chop.

rsvman

ZWExton Do you take the hands-high address position that is often advocated by single-plane swing guys? I guess you'd have to, right? Isn't it part and parcel of the whole single-plane swing philosophy?

pellmell

ZWExton less flexible and less strong folks will struggle to generate clubhead speed

I'm a follower of Jim Hardy. His books titled The Plane Truth have excellent info on one-plane and two-plane swings and how to choose between them. It's true that less flexible folks who can't turn their shoulders 90 degrees on the backswing, which is harder to do in a one-plane set-up, would be better off with a two-plane swing.

pellmell

rsvman That's the Moe Norman single axis swing, which is different.

ZWExton

rsvman

My hands are probably lower than 2PS because of how bent over my upper body is, but I've never given much thought to hand height. In general I'd assume hands are lower for the Jim Hardy or "conventional" 1PS.

Compared to a 2PS, spine is much more bent over. That's why it works. When you're bent over enough, you need very little up/down motion with your arms compared to 2PS, because your arms are going high as you turn away (due to the shoulder plane being much more vertical.)

If you can trust the turn you end up bringing the club through very consistently time and time again. It's basically sabotage to hit it fat/thin/hook/slice - you have to actively throw your shoulder plane off with a tilt of the spine, a hip slide, or a rock of the shoulders instead of a true rotation.

If you really TURN back and TURN through, it's rock solid. If you can't capture the feeling of TURN TURN TURN and you let yourself rock, slide, etc and throw your shoulder plane off, you'll struggle. Feels like a much more obvious turn than a 2PS, almost like you can't turn enough to the left through the swing. When you do it right, it feels simple, easy, and extremely powerful, like you're funneling all that swing energy through a very tiny point on the back of the ball.

sdandrea1

With your hands higher, do the lie angles have to be bent upright?

DonM

Since you mentioned Moe Norman, yes, I have played it for something like 14 years. My instruction was:
1: A Natural Golf VHS tape set
1a: A later NG DVD
2: a few lessons from one of their Certified Instructors
3: DVD's from Scott Hazledine: IMA Golf
4: DVD's from Graves Golf

I got a little something from all of it, although I'd say the NG stuff being first gave me most of what I ended up with.

In the beginning I used upright lies. Over time I changed to fairly standard lies. Moe actually was a flat lie player. The key is to align the club with your trail forearm. Most people hold it in the base of the fingers of the lead hand and in the palm but above the lifeline of the trail hand. That grip works in concert with the higher hands and arms. You can hold it in the fingers, and will look a bit more like Steve Stricker from down the line.

The swing is pretty is pretty simple, as you have found. Anyone who succeeds with it will have to match things up with their own body's timing, tilts, and other preferences. Fortunately for a guy like you, the adjustments will probably come for your own sense of what happens in a golf swing. So I am talking about more upright versus flatter, more tilt to the trail side versus less, more turn back versus less, more /quicker forward turn versus less/slower, overall tempo, etc. A wider stance will slow the lower body in favor of the upper, and narrower will do the opposite. I would say every year my swing evolved in some way. Lately I've changed to gripping in the fingers and less trail side tilt.

If you haven't already, look up Kirk Junge on Youtube. He has a ton of stuff on there. He started out in the original NG group of instructors. He has evolved over time, and I think he teaches two different flavors of it now.

scotts33

Kirk vs. Moe

Kirk vs. Bryson