The Sneaky Takeover

johnnydoom

professor So can I surmise that you do believe Iran has the moral high ground and should be trusted with nukes then?

BTW - I don’t really care and wouldn’t think less or more of you if your answer was yes. Nor if your answer is no, but there just has to be a better way. Even no answer at all is fine because when it comes down to it, it is none of my business what your opinion in the matter is. I’d just like for you to make an argument based upon observation of the situation and instances from the past that can be drawn from instead of through the impugning of other’s perceived motives.

The situation is not one which may be easily addressed. As a Christian I believe in turning the other cheek. As a parent, I don’t want my children at risk. As an American, I realize that my Christian belief is not an acceptable expectation of governance over a free people.

professor

johnnydoom So can I surmise that you do believe Iran has the moral high ground and should be trusted with nukes then?

No - not in the least.
There's no moral high ground here - religious zealots have their reasons, power mongers and capitalist Imperialists have theirs. Killing for "god" and killing for money has no "high ground".
Further, there's a level of complexity here as well. You asked and yes, I do have my perspective and no, I'm not smart enough to have the solutions. I just try to understand what's going on in our world. (And I am tired of myopic, close-minded Americans who have not understanding nor appreciation for the rest of the world and the people who inhabit it.) Sadly, there's a great level of blindness or denial going on - and it's not just sad, it's infuriating, especially so the level of ignorance (that's directed at you but toward any who won't or can't be bothered with seeking knowledge, history, and an informed version of the truth).
For all you war-monger's and Zionists!
Why?! Why does Israel wag the dog? Why does Israel get a pass on "never again" never applying to other ethnicities?! This isn't some "oh, you're an anti-Semite" bullshit. Face the truth!
"Israel has repeatedly launched deadly strikes on Beirut’s densely populated southern suburbs since its renewed offensive of Lebanon that began on 2 March – killing over 1,000 people, including at least 118 children, injuring over 2,500 others, and displacing over a million."
That's NOT Hezbollah! Constant bullshit from Israeli leadership to justify atrocities?!

jsippy73

johnnydoom
Hi Johnny, I should have warned you about the "professor", he's not going to stop with trying to make you look like a fool. That's how he works. He's looking through his list of names he can use for his name calling right now. He won't stop. He is never wrong about anything. Best thing to do is not respond to him.

Par4QC

professor "Israel has repeatedly launched deadly strikes on Beirut’s densely populated southern suburbs since its renewed offensive of Lebanon that began on 2 March – killing over 1,000 people, including at least 118 children, injuring over 2,500 others, and displacing over a million."

Iran and some of those smaller countries have installed their defense systems in random neighborhoods, populations, knowing the so-called 'rules' for collateral damages, that countries follow in these 'modern' wars. It's how Iran is still operating after supposedly being wiped out militarily(so to speak). IOW, chickenshit countries that fight dirty, yet kill their own as they wish. Not sure, myself, how a war is to be fought/won, without the collateral damages that we occasionally see, and I do not think them to be deliberate for 'just killing', but going after weapons/installations. Atrocities is what happened at My Lai, not so sure that is what's going on in the middle East, outside of what some gvts. are doing there internally.
From reports I've seen, the people of Iran have said 'bring it'....we are dying every week anyway, at the hands of our own gvt.....putting their country's future above their own lives. Remarkable people.

johnnydoom

professor When Hezbollah and Hamas are welcome in the neighborhood and using it as a launch site to send rockets into Israel, the neighborhood is going to get flattened. If the bordering territories don't like the retaliatory strikes, they need to do something to make their neighborhoods considerably less friendly to rocket launching terrorists.

You are right in that there is no moral high ground. When one side's only resolution is to wipe the other from the face of the earth, the only response must be just as evil. As near as I can tell, Israel has resolved to live in peace with most of its neighbors and there has been peace between those that have agreed to it. I don't think Egypt and Saudi love Israel, but they no longer seem to be fighting with them either directly or by proxy.

Taki27

Someone needs to take away his X account. His ability to post something stupid, or worse, as an adult is incredible. Rob Reiner dies and he posts
something offensive. Bad enough, but he doesn’t learn. Robert Mueller dies and he again posts something offensive. His Main Character Syndrome is off the charts.

sdandrea1

Taki27 Someone needs to remove him from his throne.

Fixed it.

professor

Par4QC chickenshit countries that fight dirty,

That's a really interesting comment.
Seems you labeled the enemy, in this case Iran as "fighting dirty".
My comment was specifically related to Israel and their explanations for all the collateral damage and carnage as being justified because Hamas uses civilians as human shields. Not sure why you deflected to the Iranians and their penchant for "fighting dirty". Question for you: If you were a citizen of a lesser powered sovereign nation, would you not support "fighting dirty"?
Hmmm... the Japanese fought dirty in WWII. The North Koreans and Communist Chinese "fought dirty" in Korea. The Vietnamese and Cambodians "fought dirty" in that conflict, truly another justified war, right? The Afghans whether fighting against the Soviets or the U.S. "fought dirty".
So it seems to me that "guerilla warfare" is "fighting dirty", right?
I can't help but remember that there was this thing called The American Revolution. Hmm... who introduced and succeeded in their efforts through the use of "guerilla warfare" - aka "fighting dirty"? Oh, the Continental Army.
Got it.

Par4QC From reports I've seen, the people of Iran have said 'bring it'....we are dying every week anyway, at the hands of our own gvt.....putting their country's future above their own lives. Remarkable people.

I wonder from where we get our information. Might it include some tidbits of bias? How much do we really know about Iran's culture? We're presented with actual facts about the atrocities their regime has inflicted upon their own, particularly protesting citizens. But do we have an actual perspective? Is it reasonable for our leader, Trump, to suggest that the typical Iranian citizens take to their streets, unarmed, to overthrow their regime?
Just some thoughts...

Par4QC

professor I wonder from where we get our information. Might it include some tidbits of bias?

😆Why would anyone ever think that?

professor Not sure why you deflected to the Iranians

Par4QC Iran and some of those smaller countries

I r a n.... has less keystrokes.😄

sdandrea1

professor I wonder from where we get our information.

Gotta remind myself often that my point of view is based on what I see, hear and read, and those "providers of information" probably aren't wide enough in scope. Add to that any inherent biases that I am sure are subconscious and are a product of my raising, and you get MY opinion and point of view. Realizing that, I try not to judge those that oppose it. I struggle to understand how many Trumpers continue to support a person who is constantly proving his words cannot be trusted, they are usually negative, blaming and bullying in content, and are constantly contradicting. Yet I'm surrounded by people who are intelligent, functional humans that love this guy. I just don't get it.

Maybe I'm wrong in expecting our nation's leader to set an example of integrity and compassion, while tempering his strength and consistent decisiveness.

johnnydoom

professor Might it include some tidbits of bias?

Yes, it all includes tidbits of bias. Information isn't dumped into a bin for all to access, although there was once hope that the internet might act as such. It must be provided by someone with bias and will always be distorted either intentionally or unintentionally, by deception, by omission, by paraphrase, by transcription error, by miscommunication, and by misinterpretation.

propman

What is the expiration date of this "excursion"?
Would be nice to know since our clown show never got behind a mic to justify it in a cogent manner. Or is that expecting too much?

Taki27

sdandrea1 I think he’s a jackass and a troll, but I also think the No Kings thing is overblown.

Sneakylong

sdandrea1 Yet I'm surrounded by people who are intelligent, functional humans that love this guy. I just don't get it.

Maybe I'm wrong in expecting our nation's leader to set an example of integrity and compassion, while tempering his strength and consistent decisiveness

Many of us have family members or friends who like Trump. Anecdotally from my perspective they live in a far right wing misinformation / disinformation bubble. Aka Earth 2.

Here on Earth 1 where facts and truth matter the rest of us see him for what he is. A criminally minded first class malignant narcissist / sociopathic bullshit artist. In way over his head.

Unfortunately too many people don’t have a working bullshit meter in their brain. As the late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan said, ‘we’re all entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts.’

The only way Trump gets stopped is if the Dems can win the midterms in November. If they can win the House they can stop him. The way it’s going the Senate may be in play as well. Only then will we see true oversight by Congress.

But Trump will try to steal the election with bullshit claims of voter fraud just like in 2020. He wanted to seize voting machines / send troops in 2020, but was stopped by grownups. The grownups are gone now.

In 2020 he lost in court 60 times with his bullshit voter fraud claims. The litmus test to be in his cabinet is you have to be an election denier. He has already seized the ballots from 2020 in Georgia. Those ballots were counted 3 times.

Voter fraud in this country is a fallacy. It’s been studied to death. Voter suppression legislation like the Save Act is a solution looking for a problem.

Again, according to General John Kelly Trump is fascist to the core. He’s incapable of change. Roy Cohn taught him to never apologize and always double down. And to lie incessantly. Repeat the lie enough and gullible people will believe the lie.

Trump sees his presidency as one big reality tv show. I blame Mark Burnett for Trump. After retired General Electric CEO Jack Welch turned down Burnett for The Apprentice. Burnett offered it to Trump.

The scripted ‘reality’ tv show portrayed Trump as some sort of savy businessman. Nothing could be further from the truth. He inherited all his money from his father and has since proceeded to try to lose it by recklessly over leveraging.

Several of his businesses went bankrupt. He should’ve gone full belly up at one point, but the banks would’ve lost too much had they not restructured.

He finally learned and just started doing licensing deals where he would put up no money for a building, but would charge millions to license his name on the building.

And now he’s made a fortune profiting off his presidency while in office. He’s lived a life of luck. Had Jack Smith brought the case against him in Washington DC instead of Fort Pierce Florida he most likely would not have been able to stall the case.

Anyway, the Supreme Court has given him immunity. Something that is not in the constitution. They made it out of whole cloth. But the people around him don’t enjoy the same immunity.

Many around Nixon went to jail.

This Saturday there will be huge protests across the country. My wife and I along with others will be out there. Not our first and won’t be our last.

johnnydoom

sdandrea1 I struggle to understand how many Trumpers continue to support a person

I don't care how crude he is. I've not seen a President, or any major politician that didn't lie. The primary difference is most of them do it as intentional deception. Almost all of Trumps so called lies are exaggerations made expressly so that you would know he was using it as a point of emphasis if you were doing anything but trying to tear him down. What you see as irreverence, I see as humorous satire. When faced with a system (an inside job in the very worst way) that has been trying to indict him on made up charges, leaking secret information to sabotage his agenda, hitting him with wave after wave of frivolous civil suits, and trying to kill him - I really don't expect him to be civil. The finger points both ways. Perhaps try to be civil to him and he may return the favor. If you can't bring yourself to be civil, then why ask how others can support someone who is not civil?

professor

sdandrea1 Maybe I'm wrong in expecting our nation's leader to set an example of integrity and compassion, while tempering his strength and consistent decisiveness.

That would be appropriate.

Par4QC

Sneakylong This Saturday there will be huge protests across the country.

It is a strange world today....

Other countries have also been taking to the streets, for the same person.

Not for protests...but for blessings and thanks.

🤔

Just to note, I may be the only 'fence sitter' in this thread. I did not vote for a President of the U.S., in the last election. There simply were no candidates qualified to be such, imo.
Things I may post here are not in condemnation of who won, nor are they confirmation of what he is doing, as being correct, or a confirmation that what he is doing is wrong.
I see the same distance each way I look from that fence, while not 'looking past' any of it.

professor

johnnydoom there was once hope that the internet might act as such.

My perspective, quite frankly if it wasn't for the internet and cell-phones, the corporate media would have things in a worse circumstance than current.

SMT

propman I found him and he is on his way...

Weirfan

sdandrea1

johnnydoom Almost all of Trumps so called lies are exaggerations

On that we are in vehement disagreement. He has been caught in WAY too many outright lies. He's pathological.

sdandrea1

johnnydoom I don't care how crude he is.

That's another place we differ as well. IMO "crude" is not an acceptable look or example for the person who represents us to the ROW. I have no clear way to reconcile that myself, with my kids, grandkids, church members, etc.

I'm pretty sure at this point, I need to ignore this thread, doing myself and the rest of you a favor. I just can't wrap my head around anyone supporting this "enigma".

P.S. I'm just as likely to vote Republican as I am Democrat. It comes down to the candidates for me.

professor

johnnydoom I don't care how crude he is. I've not seen a President, or any major politician that didn't lie.

Incredibly selective memory.
It's a shame you don't care about how crude he is.
I'll suggest that Jimmy Carter was the last, most ethical President in my lifetime.

johnnydoom When faced with a system (an inside job in the very worst way) that has been trying to indict him on made up charges,

Maybe you were busy on January 6th 2021? Maybe you believe the election was stolen.

johnnydoom hitting him with wave after wave of frivolous civil suits,

Sir, you're sadly mistaken. I'm certain without even needing to research it, Trump has filed more lawsuits than any other individual.
Are my typed words, expressions of my thoughts not civil enough for you?

propman

sdandrea1 wow, merely exaggerations! Hardly, imo. He has lost the ability to speak and at least 60% of the Americans confidence in his leadership. Imagine, most of the ROW feels same way, especially our former allies.
This administration is a train wreck. Pretty simple.

sdandrea1

propman

Hey! I didn't call them exaggerations! That was Johnny Doom! 😂😂😂

johnnydoom

sdandrea1 We know that he was just agreeing with you in having fun with me.

However, you asked a question in which I gave a truthful answer to. You responded with disagreement- which is a fine response but doesn’t nullify my answer.

Someone else responded with mockery. You just found what binds people to Trump.

propman

johnnydoom funny how train wrecks bind people to Trump.

sdandrea1

johnnydoom However, you asked a question in which I gave a truthful answer to. You responded with disagreement- which is a fine response but doesn’t nullify my answer.

Never meant to nullify your answer and I do appreciate your point of view. What scares me about some of Trump's outright fabrications is that it appears he actually believes them. But in the past, he has been quoted as using lies as a strategy (keep repeating.....etc.). He's definitely an enigma.

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